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Andrew Hibel, HigherEdJobs: Dr. Kleintjes Neff, you have an impressive list of accomplishments while working as a professor and researcher at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire (UWEC). Could you briefly describe your major research interests/current projects?
Paula Kleintjes Neff, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire: I am a field biologist with a strong interest in insect and avian ecology and habitat conservation. This interest began when I was a child. My research has varied greatly in topic and geography over the years but with two common themes; using insects, primarily butterflies and moths for the assessment of various conservation and restoration practices in montane and prairie ecosystems and studying plant-insect- vertebrate interactions. My current research is local and is in collaboration with the USDA FSA/NRCS 1,2, in consultation with the West Wisconsin Land Trust (WWLT) and the Xerces Society. It involves assessing the effectiveness of the USDA Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) State Acres for Wildlife Enhancement for the federally endangered Karner Blue butterfly. The end goal will hopefully result in better management of CRP plantings on private land as the program creates and conserves pollinator (and wildlife) habitat, reduces sediment loss, and improves water quality. I have a few other side projects involving Citizen Science. Most, if not all of my research involves undergraduate students, including co-authoring publications and presentations.
Hibel: In addition to conducting research, you also teach undergraduates. You obviously have a passion for science, but why did you choose the career of teaching compared to a different career path outside of higher education?
Kleintjes Neff: I enjoy learning and gaining knowledge especially about science and nature. To share that knowledge and enthusiasm with others and apply it to solving problems is rewarding and meaningful, personally as well as professionally. I also wanted to make a contribution to the greater good of society and nature. I love teaching and had a great hands-on experience as a biology undergrad at Cal Poly SLO. It inspired me to pursue a similar career. This was simultaneously supported by a great role model – my father was a university professor at another Cal State University. Although he was in a different field, I could see that he made a difference in the lives of many of his students. He shared his leadership skills, talents and knowledge with others, had a family and a good life. Both of my parents were very supportive and encouraged us kids (5) to pursue our passions. Thus, early in my undergrad education I knew I wanted to be a university professor and I worked to prepare myself for such a position.
Hibel: After completing your Ph.D., what was your experience finding your first professional position? Did you find that being a woman either positively or negatively impacted your search in a field that was historically male dominated?
Kleintjes Neff: I was very fortunate and landed my current position, quickly and right out of grad school. It also helped that I earned my Ph.D. from an institution more recognized for its outstanding research, yet my advisor was a dedicated teacher and researcher “role model”, who supported me as I looked for positions that appeared to be a good fit where I could teach and do research with undergrads and possibly graduate students. I may have compromised obtaining a position at a higher tiered research institution by not doing a postdoc but at the time I was comfortable with my decision and still am especially in light of my many interests and family. Since 1988, UWEC has been The Center of Excellence for Faculty and Undergraduate Student Research Collaboration in the UW System so it’s a great match. The only other career path I seriously considered was working for a nonprofit conservation organization. I do that indirectly now through volunteer work and perhaps I’ll do more so once I retire from UW. That’s a ways off. I am an entomologist and that is probably already considered “out there” by the general public so I will always be in the minority. I laugh, for it doesn’t really make sense considering insects are the most numerous of known organisms on earth and of such ecological and economic importance! Going back to your question, I really didn’t think about “my gender” for hiring at the time, and certainly not negatively. I did however, want to prove to society that “girls” can and do love insects and could be experts about them. I wanted to be hired for my talent and potential as a teacher and researcher. I suppose that being an experienced teacher, a researcher with a broad background and having a few publications just coming out of a well respected grad school, that I was a competitive candidate. If a campus were abiding by Affirmative Action, being a woman was a bonus. We’d have to go back and ask my search committee.
Hibel: You’ve been in the science field and academe for 20+ years. What have you seen as changes (major or minor) that have happened in terms of women in science? For example, opportunities for advancement, funding, tenure, salary differentials, etc.?
Kleintjes Neff: Reflecting on my own department and or disciplines in entomology, I have seen more talented and well qualified women hired. In entomology, I have anecdotally seen a large increase in women graduate students and faculty. My national organization the Entomological Society of America would have the numbers. Certainly, there is a visible increase in women in ecology and conservation biology in academia as well as in federal and nongovernmental conservation organizations. But, with that said, I do not know about individual academic institutions or types or other science fields, in general. At UWEC, numbers of women in the life and physical sciences have improved since I arrived, but it has been slow, and overall women constitute 18% of tenure track faculty in five science departments. The good news, especially in light of recently reported national data, 46% of our tenure track faculty in Biology are women. In regards to the other topics, in my own experience at UWEC, women have been equal in their ability to obtain funds, advance and negotiate starting salaries and start-up packages. I have heard from colleagues that is not always the case elsewhere. The most negative impact on faculty has been from state and federal budget cuts to higher education or programs that have affected us all, men and women. Many accomplished UWEC faculty have gone backwards with their salaries, with few to no raises and no funds for merit after our recent budget cuts. It has really hit the younger faculty and staff, and possibly disproportionately more women if they have been the recent hires and have children. I can’t say enough, as a full professor and past chair, how important, equal pay, recognition by administrators and peers, and merit pay for awarding excellence in teaching and research are essential for recruiting and retaining female faculty. Public support is also crucial for public “higher education”.
Hibel: Statistics show that the number of women in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) careers is lower than the number of men in these fields. The U.S. Department of Commerce noted that “although women fill close to half of all jobs in the U.S. economy, they hold less than 25 percent of STEM jobs.” 3 The report goes on to say that possible factors contributing to the discrepancy of women and men in STEM jobs, include: a lack of female role models, gender stereotyping, and less family-friendly flexibility in the STEM fields. Do you agree with these possibilities proposed? Do you have other ideas of why there are fewer women in the STEM fields?
Kleintjes Neff: Yes, I agree with all three of these factors. I think it also goes back to how females are raised as a child and if gender stereo-typing exists, either underlying or blatant, that it will negatively affect a young girls access to and interest in science. At a recent conference the idea was discussed as to whether entomologists were either “born” or “made” and the apparent response was 50:50. It is my opinion and experience that parents and relatives need to be supportive and encouraging of the sciences, whether or not they are scientifically literate themselves. Also, we need to focus on using human intelligence and talent to solve real problems and not on our societal obsession of visual appearances and the consumption that supports it. We can start with our daughters at home. I am so thankful that as a child I was encouraged to read, garden, do science, spend time outdoors in wild places, build with tools and make repairs…and at the same time, still do stereotypic “girl” stuff. I also think K-12 and undergraduate educators can make a big difference along the educational pathway to break stereotypes and facilitate girls’ interest in science and careers in science. Certainly, role models help as well as society’s better understanding of science.
Hibel: A recent news release 4 states that The National Science Foundation (NSF) is introducing 10-year initiative to provide increased flexibility to scientists wanting to start families, announced by The White House. Do you think this is a step in the right direction to help women balance careers and family?
Kleintjes Neff: Absolutely. Having time off, part-time flexibility or flexibility in location or type of work is ideal. Each parent will find what works best for them and their family. Scientists work hard and they’ll keep making that work happen. I was fortunate to have leave time when my daughter was born, some covered by FMLA and sick leave and some unpaid. It was totally worth it.
Hibel: Do you think there still exists a stereotype that math and science are not for women or has this changed? If one still exists, what do you think can be done to change this stereotype?
Kleintjes Neff: If the stats are accurate, I am afraid some of this bias may still exist, especially outside of academia. At least at my institution, we have always had roughly 60% female students and our female science and math students are consistently successful academic stars and leaders. Many have gone on for advanced degrees and successful careers in the sciences. I also see more women working for state resources agencies and citizen science programs. I cannot comment on industry or federal research agencies for I have no experience there. From what I can see, women in general are breaking through those stereotypes, if and where they exist, and if supported and encouraged at an early age, they’ll go into science and math. BUT, my view may be limited and biased because I work in academia and a mid-sized Midwest campus
Hibel: You are currently on sabbatical leave. Would you briefly explain the process of taking a sabbatical and if you think that there are different views on sabbaticals for men in science versus women?
Kleintjes Neff: At my institution sabbatical is available for tenured faculty every 7 years. We have a strict proposal and peer-review process for applications. Faculty typically use sabbaticals to “catch up” and analyze and publish their research, write a book, learn new techniques or tools and modernize the current state of knowledge of their field. If the proposal is warranted and granted, faculty can take a semester or full year leave (the latter with a 33% pay cut), to pursue their work. It is a very productive time. I see no difference in views of sabbatical between genders; differences are more likely among disciplines, time and rank at the institution and goals to be accomplished.
Hibel: A report 5, “Why So Few?” supported by the National Science Foundation stated that the number of women earning Doctorates has steadily increased. In fact, almost 50% of Ph.D. holders in Biology are women. However, only 22% of tenured faculty at four-year institutions are women. What are your thoughts on these statistics?
Kleintjes Neff: Some of my answer was addressed above, yet I’ll provide some more. We still have a long way to go to increase numbers of tenured female faculty and yes, these data are reflective of the situation as far as I can tell. For example, at my institution in 5 science departments (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, Geography), we have 70 Tenure track faculty, 18% of which are women. Add academic staff and technicians and that jumps to 27%. The good news, in Biology nearly half (46%) of the tenure track faculty are women. The bad news for us, of those 5 departments, 35 faculty are full professors, only 2 of which are women. One is myself in Biology and the second is my colleague is in Physics. We did have another in Geology but she moved into the administration (Vice Chancellor for Research). We did not have any full time, full professors before us either. But with that said, size and type of academic institution, science departments, academic climate, geographic location and personal life can all play a part in attracting and retaining female faculty.
Hibel: The above report also cited previously found ample evidence of continuing cultural bias. One study of postdoctoral applicants, for example, found that women had to publish three more papers in prestigious journals, or 20 more in less-known publications, to be judged as productive as male applicants. Do you think this is common?
Kleintjes Neff: I would first ask, what is the audience for the survey? I don’t know if it is common, but if these data are sound and well interpreted, they are very disturbing. I do believe however, it would not be the case in Biology at an institution that puts a strong emphasis on undergraduate education and involvement in research. I also think there is disagreement about quality vs. quantity of publications within the scientific community, which may be the result of the cultural bias. It is of my opinion, and not all agree, is that is it not so important as to “where” one publishes but rather what one publishes and what their participatory role is in the publication (e.g., the 15th author of an article in a prestigious journal vs. the lead and possibly sole author of a smaller disciplinary journal). In my mind, “Productivity” is much more than publications.
Hibel: In a controversial speech from 2005 6, then Harvard University President, Lawrence H. Summers, suggested that “innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers.” Do you think this is a common idea shared by university officials, particularly men?
Kleintjes Neff: I would hope not and if so, it would indicate ignorance and lack of experience on their part. They need to work with successful and productive women scientists before they speak or, not be in a position of administration. It suggests that increasing science and scientific literacy is more important than ever, for BOTH boys and girls.
Hibel: We like to close our interview with questions related to careers in higher education. Putting your leadership hat on, what would your advice be to a female colleague who may stepping into a role as a Department Chair or other leadership position?
Kleintjes Neff: It’ll be easiest if I answer this with a suggestive bulleted “list”:
- Tighten your seat belt and put on your armor
- Know what you are getting into; the expectations of you as a leader, and your position as a half administrator/ half faculty member, teacher and/or researcher; know your bosses and institutions expectations.
- Recognize your leadership style and question if the position is a good fit (for example, be aware of paper pushing when you are a visionary/new project leader)
- Pick the right time in your life to lead (I was chair for 4 years. It had its rewards, but I stepped down when I had my daughter. For me, chairing a dept. of 28 faculty and staff was not compatible with raising a family and maintaining excellence in teaching/research at the same time)
- Be able to multitask
- Make time for exercise and personal interests
- Seek assistance and support ( e.g., Wisconsin Women in Higher Education Leadership is an excellent source)
- Ask for what you need and want
- Strengthen and support your existing faculty as best you can; Recruit the best faculty with the best fit; As much as possible recognize and reward your faculty for their accomplishments; make a big deal of advancements and other successes such as grants and publications, excellent teaching etc. ; Find ways to monetarily reward with increases to base funding “raises”; Pats on the back are NOT good enough to retain hard working and productive faculty; allow for flexibility and choice of classes and schedules
- And, don’t forget humor, humility, integrity and grace.
Hibel: Thinking in terms of careers, what words of wisdom would you offer to young women considering entering the field of science?
Kleintjes Neff: Again, I provide a list of ideas:
- Think of what you want to be, do, and where. Gain the breadth and depth of experience that you need to get there. Do you want to be an academic? At a research -1 institution, state comprehensive, small private liberal arts institution? If not academia, then what? Shadow prospective positions?
- Seek out excellent advisors. Your advisor-student relationship is very important so find those that are supportive of women in science, have shared interests, have a positive track record of mentoring female students and/or are possible role models themselves.
- Be prepared and TRY not to take things too personal. Receiving, giving and applying constructive criticism is part of doing science and being a scientist
- You can do it ALL, but maybe not ALL at the same time throughout your career
- Support other women and be able to work with women and men, of all ages and rank
- Don’t get discouraged by distractions – face them & move on. It’s life. Recognize challenges for what they are and embrace those that are rewarding and intellectually stimulating and work to eliminate those that are inappropriate or unacceptable.
Hibel: For many women in science, balancing a demanding career with a family is difficult and often results in a woman leaving academia. 7 What are your key tips on how to balance a successful career while maintaining a healthy family life?
Kleintjes Neff: I may not be the best example, for I remarried late in life and had my daughter after I was tenured and a full professor. (Then again, perhaps this is a good example itself of what can happen, i.e., delaying having a family, when the demands of a career occur earlier?). It worked for great for us but I am not advocating this by any means. It’s still a juggling act. With that said, I have seen some of my female colleagues with and without children stay and succeed, move to other institutions or leave academia for good. Those with children still at UWEC or at other institutions all vary in their ability and desire to find, or perhaps choose balance – some controllable, some not. I’ll be frank, having and raising children early in your career and pre-tenure would be and is very challenging, as the stats indicate. So prepare. Have a support system (especially dad personally and professionally!) including good child care and/or help at home. Be willing to say no. Prioritize and/or delegate time consuming responsibilities that don’t need to be done by YOU. Pick reasonable and attainable research topics and doable projects. Be organized and be your own boss. Seek a supportive department that lets you get your work done, does not micromanage nor make you feel like a token female. Make time to exercise. My department (including students) has been very supportive and they know, I’ll get my work done and am productive even though they may not get the face time they want, when they want it. Make time for your family and have fun. Remember we can and need to be our spouses’/partners’ and children’s “women in science” role models as well as our students’ and the greater public’s “scientist and mom” role model. We need this to facilitate the recruiting and retaining of more women in STEM fields. Join organizations such as AWIS 8, AAUW 9, WWHEL 10, your professional organization and/or on-campus groups supportive of women in science.